bike carbs

Carbs, Injection, Manifolds, Unleaded conversions, etc.

Moderator: Moderators

bike carbs

Postby pinhead » 07 Jan 2005, 19:29

Im a new member, just wondering if anyone has tried to put bike carbs (yamaha yzf 600) onto a chevette. The only reason im asking is that ive just bought an A reg chevette L 3 door jobby.

Its seroiusly lacking in power for competing in road rallies and i was wondering how difficult it is. Any replies would be great.

Tidy job!!
pinhead
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 19:26
Location: Laugharne

Postby shuvit-tim » 07 Jan 2005, 21:31

why would you use bike carbs? not heard of this before

look into Webers would be my advice.

Mines an A reg L as well :D

There are plenty of threads on how to tune up a standard 1256 chevette. I'll dig out my docs on it and email them to you
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

bike carbs

Postby pinhead » 08 Jan 2005, 00:54

the main reason is that bike carbs are about £40, reliable and they will give more power than webbers

the manifold will be a bit of hassle but ive seen someone use samco hose as the runners, so its just a case of making a plate to mount to the head and another for the carbs. From reading magazines (retro cars) it seems like it works well, its just a bit of hassle setting them up.
cheers for the reply

Tidy job!
pinhead
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 19:26
Location: Laugharne

bike carbs

Postby craigm » 08 Jan 2005, 01:08

if when you say 'road rallies' you mean the all night navigational type remember that you are only allowed two carb chokes (twin su's or a single sidedraft or downdraft weber) on a modified car . pull up with four bike carbs and you will not get through scrutineering .
craigm
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: 18 Dec 2004, 15:21
Location: chelmsford essex

Postby pinhead » 08 Jan 2005, 01:16

cheers for that. i thought it was possible. nevermind then. looks like the second chevette will have to be done for the road rallies. the bike carbs will have to live on the road.

cheers for that. i should look at the msa blue book a bit more!!

Tidy job!!
pinhead
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 19:26
Location: Laugharne

Postby shuvit-tim » 08 Jan 2005, 05:41

would love to see some photos if you get it to work! good luck!

Yeah - two chokes only! This sucks. this means you cant for instance run a nova sport because it has 4 chokes in all on the twin 40 webers - A homologated rally car that you cant run in road rallies. And the MSA's justification? and i quote.."they're too loud". Have none of them heard a subaru impreza roar past on a night rally? or the MKII escorts? the nova sport isnt a hugely loud car even with the 40s! its a joke!
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby Doive » 08 Jan 2005, 07:17

I have no experience of any of this myself, but it appears the classic modifying world (better than the Lax Power crowd anyway) are getting a bit excited about the bike carbs idea. This months issue of Retro Cars and also Practical Performance Car (I think) talk about fitting bike carbs. Apparently they are easy to track down and are much much cheaper than a pair of Webers, but you will need to get a custom manifold sorted for the job. Could be a laugh on a road car - the induction noise would be something special, and it would beinteresting to see what kind of BHP could be squeezed from the little 1256.
<img src="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/firefox2/firefox-spread-btn-1b.png">

Med Venlig Hilsen

www.doive.co.uk
User avatar
Doive
Pyrotechnic Nutter Admin
Pyrotechnic Nutter Admin
 
Posts: 4357
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 18:43
Location: Clinging to a Turbine, Hexham

Postby craigm » 08 Jan 2005, 18:40

tim , if a nova sport comes with twin webers as standard then it could enter a road rally in the standard road car class the same as the sabaru's do . your just not allowed to make any modification's to the car in this class,not even change the air filter type .
craigm
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: 18 Dec 2004, 15:21
Location: chelmsford essex

Postby Shoveitpusher » 08 Jan 2005, 19:04

quite correct (apart from the air filter, you can change that in England but not in Wales) anything supplied with twin sidedraft can run as such, it would just have to run as a standard production car.
the issue with the sport is under the enduro rules as they have missed out the section 22.6 on that refers to standard production cars, but have allowed twin cams. we'll never know the real reason for not allowing them, probably someone made a mistake at colnbrook when they wrote the blue book. if it was noise they would insist on 8m noise tests (as they should in my opinion).
Peter C
Shoveitpusher
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 812
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 19:16
Location: Norfolk

Postby shuvit-tim » 08 Jan 2005, 19:49

wasnt certain with regards night rallies and so on - it was with reference the enduro rallies that the subject came up. My friends built a nova sport for the first endurance rally and competed in it. They went to enter the following year and were told they couldnt because of being in breach of the regulations set down by the blue book. Given that the idea of the endurance rally being a budget rally - it took the piss a little that they were then being asked to build an entirely new car to be able to enter. The humourous thing - they WOULD have been allowed to bolt a pierberg onto it and entered it as a nova SPRITE as the sport was built with a standard 1300 setup and the Webers were supplied in the boot and you could 'choose' to fit them if you so wished :lol: They took it up with the MSA but the magical man from the MSA said it was on noise basis. I couldnt understand it either!!

With regard the air filters - you're better off keeping the standard Irmscher manifold that it was supplied with as ytou apparently lose some of the mid-range torque by fitting K&Ns or similar.


Forgive me if i'm incorrect on any of this - i heard it all second hand
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby Shoveitpusher » 09 Jan 2005, 13:45

wlecome to the magical world of the MSA. a couple of years ago you could put throttle bodies on a 205 but couldn't do the setup pinhead wants to do, just because they hadn't realised fuel injection didn't work like carbs.

i suppose we will have to lobby the msa, trouble is it only affects the nova sport and the proper 205 rallye.

truth is the rules need completely re-writing, they have evolved to address specific problems in specific regions, regions have their own requirements as well making it a right pain.

latest change is to allow fuel injected engines to be fitted to a car that didn't have it in the first place as long as the engine keeps the origional induction system. would have been really useful if they hadn't limited it to single cam engines - don't think there are any made now so it's old pinto's and vauxhall lumps.
Peter C
Shoveitpusher
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 812
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 19:16
Location: Norfolk

Postby shuvit-tim » 09 Jan 2005, 15:32

i can see i have the full extent of this joy to come!

But just to clarify - If I fit 40's to a 1600 engine dropped into a chevette - I cant run in night rallies or road rallies?
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby Shoveitpusher » 09 Jan 2005, 21:56

what you say is correct

but

if you keep the full fuel injection you can then run in both road and stage
Peter C
Shoveitpusher
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 812
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 19:16
Location: Norfolk

Postby craigm » 09 Jan 2005, 22:17

pete , where is the info about the fuel injection , i've fabricated my own inlet manifold and mounted twin 1'3/4 su carbs on my car so i stay road rally legal . i'd love to put the fuel injection back on . ive checked blue book but can only find the rules which have applied for years .
craigm
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: 18 Dec 2004, 15:21
Location: chelmsford essex

Postby shuvit-tim » 09 Jan 2005, 23:26

but that involves setting up all th ewiring for the ECU and so on does it not!? Don't know my bottom from my elbow with regards injection as i've never owned one! :S
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby craigm » 10 Jan 2005, 01:00

i've done some work on several mg maestro's (excellent road rally car ) and have got to know the workings of e. f. i. quite well , fuel injection would give much better throttle response than my su's with the same fuel economy(probably better). its only a case of getting brain , casting and fitting's and wiring loom from an s r i . there's a 2.0L chevette on ebay at the moment , check out his engine bay pictures .
craigm
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: 18 Dec 2004, 15:21
Location: chelmsford essex

Postby Shoveitpusher » 10 Jan 2005, 17:13

craigm wrote:pete , where is the info about the fuel injection , i've fabricated my own inlet manifold and mounted twin 1'3/4 su carbs on my car so i stay road rally legal . i'd love to put the fuel injection back on . ive checked blue book but can only find the rules which have applied for years .


i've not got the blue book here but it's a new rule that came in last year. it'll be under the modified car bit which is 22.1 to .5 i think. we can have a chat at the prize ginving if you like on the 20th at the cricket club. but basically it's got to have the plenum as standard, not even sure you have to keep the filter box. you could use an aftermarket brain. emerald 3d seem good value.

Tim, really it's a bit late for you but a scrap gte nova would yield the harness and ecu then it's just a case of connecting the positive and earth to the ecu (please note i have no intention of doing this so it is very easy for me, I'll stick to my twin 48's) but again investing in an after market ecu wouldn't be such a bad plan.
Peter C
Shoveitpusher
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 812
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 19:16
Location: Norfolk

Postby Festerfly » 30 Mar 2005, 12:07

a chap i know is fitting MB throttle bodies on to a manifold for his MK1 Escort Zetec conversion. He has made the flanges and then used some samco hoseing to connect the two together...

I was toying with doing the same thing on a 16v chevette conversion i am planning.... :twisted:
Smoke me a Kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
Festerfly
Novice Driver
Novice Driver
 
Posts: 63
Joined: 25 Mar 2005, 12:45
Location: Bedford, UK


Return to Fuel & Exhaust system

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron