GM Wings

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GM Wings

Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 13 May 2007, 21:02

Ok lads Im in need of a set of rot free good condition GM Genuine wings for the Chevette, Im looking for a price so I can try to get the £££ gathered up I need to know what you would be looking with postage to NI

Thanks Lads in advance
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Postby Shuvit-pinto » 13 May 2007, 21:59

GM Wings are like hens teeth. Expect to pay up to £80 each :shock: sometimes morefor any metal wing.

Good luck :?
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 13 May 2007, 22:05

Im prepared to pay anything Mark

Do you have any Mark :?:
Last edited by 14yearoldchevetter on 18 May 2007, 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doive » 13 May 2007, 22:45

I wonder if I could patch my wings up, would they be suitable as sacrificial wings for someone to make decent patterns from?
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Postby UpNorth » 14 May 2007, 08:19

Aren't good unused genuine wings in the £100-120 bracket & patterns a few quid behind?
Anyone have a 6R4 for sale? Unfortunately I've only got £1K spare but I could throw in a few eggs to sweeten the deal!
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Postby Doive » 14 May 2007, 08:31

I'm thinking more of long term panel availability than pounds in the pocket. If enough people were interested I'd look into it.
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 14 May 2007, 09:53

If I get GM Wings I'd patch my old ones up (theyre not bad) and send them over, id also buy a couple of sets of the pattern wings that would possibly come out of it

Im always up for wing production if anyone would like to join me and Doive
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 14 May 2007, 09:58

What about dropping www.vauxhallheritage.com an email in the search for pattern wings? Anyone tried this before for any parts??
Thoughts anyone??
Thanks
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Postby Doive » 14 May 2007, 10:00

I live 5 minutes from Hadrian Panels head office in Fourstones, so I'd just take the set of wings across there and pick their brains. Herbie has said before (as he knows about these things) that setting up all the tooling takes a while and is very expensive, if I thought it was possible I would get an industrial unit myself, and hire someone like Nick to help me set up the appropriate tooling. Obviously wouldn't make economic sense. People like the Zodiac owners club can get panels for the mk4 Zodiac remade, not exactly a plentiful car and yet still viable. I'd suggest there are far more Chevettes on the road than mk4 Zodiacs!
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 14 May 2007, 10:17

I think that it is only possible to make 20 pattern pairs out of a pair of gen. wings so if we were to get 3 pairs of patched gen. GM wings that would be 60 pairs I dont think that they would be sitting all thsat long. As I said I would buy as many pairs as I can as they are always useful to us Chevette owners
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 14 May 2007, 10:20

If we were to make a list of possible buyers for the pattern wings and gather enough interest this may be possible

Andrew (1 pair)

To get the ball rolling :)
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Postby Doive » 14 May 2007, 10:22

I'll take a pair too.

Doive (1 pair)
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Postby Neilyman » 14 May 2007, 10:41

Me 1 pr :)
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 14 May 2007, 11:18

OK lads make a list, such as the stickers were

Neilyman 1
Dave 1
Andrew 1
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 14 May 2007, 16:37

Doive wrote:I live 5 minutes from Hadrian Panels head office in Fourstones, so I'd just take the set of wings across there and pick their brains.

i'd pop along and ask them Doive but they would expect to make about 300 wings of each hand to make it viable i would guess and then your only going to get a RAF wing at the end of it. might be better off going the soft tooling route and sacrificing a set of wings.
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Postby Doive » 14 May 2007, 17:02

How many wings would the soft tooling route allow us to make for each set of genuine wings? And what is the quality like in comparison? How difficult is it to do, and what kind of money are we talking about?

Couldn't you, on a quiet shift, set up some tooling and press off a few dozen Chevette wings for us? :P
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 14 May 2007, 22:16

Doive wrote:How many wings would the soft tooling route allow us to make for each set of genuine wings?

about 20 pairs
Doive wrote:And what is the quality like in comparison?

they claim the panels are as close to the originals as possible but then they would. i suspect a better surface finish than Hadrians but at a much higher cost per panel.
Doive wrote:How difficult is it to do

a wing, or fender as it is properly known as, is quite a complex panel to make without trying to induce much metal thinning or strains as we call it. it has to bolt onto the inner wing then curve around and then form the wheelarch. all fender die sets will have to have cams involved somewhere along the line to produce the wheelarch lip and top rail as you cannot produce these panels in one hit unlike door outer skins and tailgates.
Doive wrote:and what kind of money are we talking about?

lots for OEMs but its impossible to say really as it depends on too many factors but as an example:
1 - 2 sets of 'A' class dies, minimum of 4 in each set of left and right hand i reckon would be about 250k - 300k each set.
2 - 1 set of double 'A' class dies of again 4, you would produce a left hand and right hand part at the same time, about 500k
Hadrian/Ex-pressed steel would look to make the dies for about 5k or less hence the very low quality of the finished goods.
Doive wrote:Couldn't you, on a quiet shift, set up some tooling and press off a few dozen Chevette wings for us? :P

every shifts a quiet one for me as i'm only allowed to instruct and not actually work on dies for the time being. i've been speaking to some "old boys" at work who remember the Chevette being made here and they said how bad the tools were that made the fenders and front panels and that everyone of them had to go through rework hence their likeness for rusting.
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Postby Doive » 15 May 2007, 09:05

Herbie_Flowers wrote:about 250k - 300k

:shock:

Chuffing Nora. I had no idea that was the kind of beans involved. I was thinking, y'know, I've got a few quid saved up for a rainy day, I could knock up a bit of tooling over a weekend and shove out a few panels. But I don't quite have 250k. Ho hum.
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Postby Shoveitpusher » 15 May 2007, 11:17

tell him how much a mono side for a car is!
i think you would be better off spending the money on a set of good composite wings in some form of tough kevlar, won't dent when you have a little mishap, won't rust.

the only real hope is to present a business case to either a heritige supplier or someone like Hadrian. you may get a boost if you can get the hrcr to allow period modified chevettes to compete in the historic championships.
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 15 May 2007, 13:02

well stuff that idea...

STILL LOOKING FOR A SET OF GEN GM WINGS OR DRIVERS SIDE GM WING
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 15 May 2007, 17:56

Doive wrote:Chuffing Nora. I had no idea that was the kind of beans involved.

there's lots of costs involved in there mate that anyone outside the game wouldn't know about. you've got the tool design team, prototype team who make a mock-up in polystyrene and machine it to the required shape, then it has to be cast in a foundry, the machinists rough finish it before passing it on to us, the toolmakers, who then finish it off by hand. once finished it goes to try-out to see what sort of panel, if any, is produced and at the customers required speed and within the appropriate spec. if you're able to produce fenders at 15 - 18 panels a minute that's good going and helps OEMs keep their costs down.
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Postby Harry Flatters » 15 May 2007, 18:08

shoveitpusher wrote:if you can get the hrcr to allow period modified chevettes to compete in the historic championships.


Trouble is that'd require a regs change so post '75s don't have to be homologated, which might be a big ask...

Everyone's going on the assumption that no tooling exists - has that definitely been established? Anyone tried Hadrian, Veng, Taylor Pressform, Ex-Pressed Steel et al to see if there's still tooling about?

Herbie Flowers wrote:or fender as it is properly known


You moving to America Nick?
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Postby Mantadoc » 15 May 2007, 19:35

http://www.steelpanels.co.uk

These people use a panel to make a mould then cast up against the back n front. Because the material they use is alloy and softer than dedicated tooling they make batches of 20 but the old panel is preserved to recast against.

The castings of either side are used to press the panels and they are hand finished to work around the limitations of the process.

Went down there when I was looking into Manta rear panel re-manufacture. Not one person in the owners club expressed a desire to make it happen / put there name down for one. Panels aren't cheap but better than scrapping your car. The pricing wasn't out of line with genuine panel prices on ebay, but would be availble on demand, that's the difference.

There are prices on there for Ford so you can probably get a general idea.
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 15 May 2007, 19:58

sounds like an idea...
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 15 May 2007, 20:29

Harry Flatters wrote:Everyone's going on the assumption that no tooling exists - has that definitely been established?

i know for a fact all genuine GM tooling for the Chevette has gone to that great furnace in the sky and i reckon i'd be correct in saying that so too has the Kadett tooling as they were all shipped to Ellesmere Port in the mid seventies and all the dies were got rid of in the mid eightees. i walk over the concrete floor they were stood on outside everyday and you can still see the rust imprints of the tools :cry:
Harry Flatters wrote:You moving to America Nick?

nah, for some reason all the panels have American terms like fender, moonroof and trunk although the bonnet is still known as bonnet and not hood :?
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