How big a job is this rear arch?

All the bits that rust!

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Postby Harry Flatters » 31 May 2007, 12:56

Doive wrote: I would never ever ever turn my car into a rally slag


Too many doors for that LOL

(Although... Delta Integrale... BMW M3... Galant... Lancer...)
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 31 May 2007, 16:45

You've just contradicted yourself....

Well done :lol: :lol:
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Postby Doive » 31 May 2007, 16:55

I think that was the intention... 8)

One big happy Chevette family us lot - saloon, hatch, estate, van, I'd have them all!
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 31 May 2007, 20:56

Doive wrote:One big happy Chevette family us lot - saloon, estate, van, I'd have them all!


Corrected :lol: :lol:

No, I would like a hatch
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Postby CancerWagon » 01 Jun 2007, 08:14

The extra doors and associated pillar adds rigidity, good for motorsport :twisted:

I can only get a hatch.... Would kill for an estate or saloon. Cost is approximately nine hundred quid..... yes, Pound sterling, to import something from Europe. :cry:
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 03 Jun 2007, 20:41

CancerWagon wrote:The extra doors and associated pillar adds rigidity, good for motorsport :twisted:

on newer cars yes with their single length bodysides but older cars were made up of lots of panels thus decreasing their rigidity :wink:
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Postby Doive » 04 Jun 2007, 08:22

So what you're saying is that a late model saloon would be best for structural rigidity...?

In that case, I give you a Y-reg four door saloon :lol:
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 04 Jun 2007, 17:27

tsk tsk
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Postby CancerWagon » 05 Jun 2007, 02:10

All these shananagains aside..... how've you been getting on with that wheel arch? (if you've already started that is)
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 05 Jun 2007, 12:43

I think one of ross's road signs is in order!!! :lol:
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Postby Doive » 05 Jun 2007, 12:55

As usual, life has overtaken me. I've got an ad for a shed/workshop in the local mart catalogue this weekend, which will be seen by about a thousand farmers, so I'm hopeful someone out there will have some sort of storage available. I just need to get my finger out.
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Postby Mantadoc » 06 Jul 2007, 23:39

These people
http://www.carpanels.co.uk/index_catalogues.htm
have 2 door arches, but if you can't get a 4 door arch you could cut one down around the door apature, that would give you more work making the bits up for inside the door.

I did a bit of shopping for the Manatee with them recently
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If I remember rightly a wheel arch doesn't count as structural for the MOT, except where it closes the sill, or is near suspension mounting points, so if its rotted up to the shocker top it would count.

That generally means as long as the sill is closed and it doesn't have any sharp edges to injure pedestrians you can get away with most things.

Some of these Image save a lot of time. Screw everything together first, and only weld when sure, that way if migging you can draw round edges and make sure you clean up well in advance or it will be horrible.

Get yourself a Knibbler, there are cheaper ones than the turner knibbler http://www.machinemart.co.uk but at least you can get spares for these (order a spare DIE because if you are unlucky you can brake one and they are special order. Cheaper alternative http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8015&frostProductName=Nibbler

A nibbler isn't necessary, lots of people use the grinder, but more precise AND saves showering your car in grinding sparks, you'll still need a grinder but it's easier on you and the car.

Just my opinion but DON'T use the whole repair panel if you can avoid it. Seams rust, so if your first cut is at the maximum size when the seam rusts you can't cut out bigger, or, if someone runs into your arch you can't go bigger which means undoing what you have done and that can be hell too.

One of these http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8440&frostProductName=Joggler%20Hole%20Punch can be used to put a step in the edge of the panel , saves a lot of filler going into the side of your car. Mine is 20+ years old now, so not cheap but if you do one job every other year with it it easily pays.

Lots of cheap repairs people spot weld the repair panel on top (especially 2 door cars) and use a bucket of filler and don't even repair the arch just cover the rust... YUCK. On a 4 door that kind of bodge will stand out a mile away as the door skin won't be in line (unless the door catch is adjusted)

The inner arch can be as fancy or basic as you like from something from one formed piece either made yourself or from DR Manta (remember you don't have to use all a panel you buy if its more convenient not to) to separate sections welded in place, either just touching and spot welded to the inside of the lip of the new arch edge or fancier stuff folded with a return (but still small sections, less skill and time to make). Small sections are best made with the rear arch screwed to the car, you screw thenm to inner arch and each other. Then remove outer arch reduce overlaps if need be and it you already cleaned up get welding the inner. Spot it first (bits to each other not the car) until you have your repair panel. Try outer arch regularly. When happy spot it to the inner arch (doing this with outer arch off allowy you do do most welding without trying to weld up hill)

Eventually the inner is finished and noy you have to weld the outer. Start woth regular spot welds every 3 to 6 inches, then you keep going round working 3 to 6 inch apart so you don't do too much in one place and cause heat distortion of the rear quarter.

Basically an arch is one of the simpler repairs, but unlike a wing has the potential to make your care look an a*se and not be easily changed (another reason to not use the full panel? potential second shot at it?)

On the other hand if you can't afford to pay for a bodge (a proper job would cost a fair chunk) or just don't want to if its have a go or scrap it what do you have to lose?

I would do what the other bloke said though and get the carpets out / get under it / wings off look at A pillars / look at boot floor, dips under the rear rails rot like hell but sometimes look good due to sealer.

Observe all relevant health and safety regulations....
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Postby CancerWagon » 09 Jul 2007, 07:33

Screws such as thoes are often used on steel stud wall construction.

I've found them VERY useful for adding ground wires and mounting relays. :D
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Postby Galgeth » 28 Aug 2007, 22:31

Saw this and thought of you!

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/wheelarch.htm
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Postby Doive » 29 Aug 2007, 07:49

Inspiration! Excellent. The good thing is that I have an entire replacement inner and outer arch with intact lip to weld into my car, but what it does mean is that I need to get a very tidy edge to weld to. I've got Ralph passing through Hexham this evening, so he can cast his more expert eye over the situation.
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Postby CR500Dom » 29 Aug 2007, 10:42

Clamp the new arch on to the old one and then cut through both with a thin 1mm cuting disc or recipricating saw

Then you remove the rot underneath and the cut panels will match with a 1mm gap which is then perfect for Mig Brazing with no distortion 8)

Check out the migwelding forum section on mig brazing - less heat = less distortion and much easier cleanup of the "Weld" afterwards, great Gap filling ability too and the only Thatcham approved method of Insurance repair to Shells with Hi-Tensile steel used in their construction :wink:

HTH and good luck
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Postby Mantadoc » 17 Sep 2007, 01:14

I know it's mig brazing, but brazing of structural parts isn't acceptable for the MOT (ok they won't see it under paint) unless something has changed, so if the arch is taken down into the sill that would be a fail technically wouldn't it?

So big question is brazing now ok on tructural parts????

Interesting to see on www.mig-welding.co.uk that with boron steel even minor repair of structural bits is out and they must be replaced whole not sectioned, won't be many of these newer cars around when they are 20 years old, or they won't be safe because once new parts are unavailable repairing one will be out......

.......so it looks like the braze is being used to "glue" panels together rather than repair them....

.....then again nothing to stop folk repoairing with heavier non-boron steel I suppose?



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Postby Mantadoc » 13 Jan 2008, 22:08

You done this arch yet? Eh? EH? Eh?
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Postby Doive » 13 Jan 2008, 23:06

Nope, sorry lads. I'm letting the side down. I've almost negotiated a garage, but just need to finalise rent etc. I did give the old girl a new year wake-up call yesterday, fresh battery and she started no problem after about three months standing. Bit damp, but got the heater going and all was well.

I will get it done this year - Ralph has been on my case as well... :lol:
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