Chevette rear seat belts

If it won`t fit anywhere else, stick it here!

Moderator: Moderators

Chevette rear seat belts

Postby Nate » 07 Jun 2005, 01:47

Can anyone help??? I have a chevette 2 door saloon and i want to put rear seat belts in. Does anyone have any or know where i can source them from? Or is it possible to use other belts. Thanks guys :D
User avatar
Nate
Novice Driver
Novice Driver
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 07 May 2005, 16:04
Location: Stroud

Postby Tortron » 07 Jun 2005, 06:52

just as long as their secured properly eg a huge washer under the bolt in the floor, any prettymuch can go in
User avatar
Tortron
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 779
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 04:14
Location: New Zealand

Postby grim_b » 07 Jun 2005, 08:38

I was made to put rear ones in my Hatch..... £200 fitted :(

You can get a set from EAS if you have one near you or another Part-Co should be a goer?
I loved my car, but she has to go.... :(
User avatar
grim_b
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 366
Joined: 20 May 2005, 09:18
Location: Hampshire, UK

Postby Neilyman » 07 Jun 2005, 09:10

Universals from Halfords etc..... All the captive nuts are there in the bodywork to fit them.
Image
User avatar
Neilyman
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 21 Nov 2004, 17:20
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Postby Nate » 07 Jun 2005, 17:58

I have found the captive nuts but i can only find 2 for the seat belt on each side. It does also have the 2 in the centre under the seats aswell but i thought that normal seat belts have 3 mounting points
User avatar
Nate
Novice Driver
Novice Driver
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 07 May 2005, 16:04
Location: Stroud

Postby Neilyman » 07 Jun 2005, 19:43

On my car (`80), There`s 4 under the rear seat, 2 in the middle, (buckles) & 1 at each end. (end of reel belt), mine have eye bolts screwed in for when I use my 4-point harnesses.
There`s a plastic plug 1/2 way up the `C` post, above the rear seat back, that`s for the top mount, & the reel fastens in the hole behind the card bits in the boot, with a plate supplied in the belt kits as a reinforcement behind.
Image
User avatar
Neilyman
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 21 Nov 2004, 17:20
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Postby Guest » 11 Aug 2005, 01:43

I keep meaning to bolt another seatbelt in the back of mine... then I'd have the only _legal_ five-seater Chevette... Too bad I'd always end up in the back, my friends all have bigger butts than me... :roll:
Guest
 

Postby penski » 11 Aug 2005, 08:35

Neilyman wrote:On my car (`80), There`s 4 under the rear seat, 2 in the middle, (buckles) & 1 at each end. (end of reel belt), mine have eye bolts screwed in for when I use my 4-point harnesses.
There`s a plastic plug 1/2 way up the `C` post, above the rear seat back, that`s for the top mount, & the reel fastens in the hole behind the card bits in the boot, with a plate supplied in the belt kits as a reinforcement behind.


You shouldn't really attatch harnesses that low down - they are designed to go straight back from the top of the seat.

Being low down, in an accident, the momentum of your body going forwards will compress both the seat back and your spine. Not a good thing if you value walking/living.

2 minute mega-leet Paint pic:

Image

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby Neilyman » 11 Aug 2005, 08:58

By heck Penski, your a gold mine of infomation ! :)

1) I aint got a roll cage
2) I never use them...show use only !
3) I`ve raced Grasstrack Minis & 4 x 4s for 20 odd years....I `do` know `bout harnesses :mrgreen:

Every ned & chav round here has their harnesses anchored down the back of the rear seat squab.

Like the drawing though, & thanks for your concern. ;)
Image
User avatar
Neilyman
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 21 Nov 2004, 17:20
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Postby penski » 11 Aug 2005, 13:52

The Blue Book says a 10 degree deviation up or down from horizontal is preferred but up to 45 degrees is acceptable...I wouldn't feel comfortable with more than 5 degrees of deviation.

I spent most of my early/mid teens hurtling 'round fields in stripped 998 minis. :)

Buy an MOT-failure during the week, spend evenings stripping it, welding it, putting your cage, seats and extinguisher in, make sure everything's safe then race it at the weekend.

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby Neilyman » 11 Aug 2005, 14:16

Yeah, that`s what I used to run in, Class 1, cheap & cheerful.My harness was fastened to a horizontal on the cage, right at the back by the shelf.
When I `needed` a new car, I used to cut the roof off, both old & new, put the cage in, in 1 piece, then weld the roof back on. :)

My V8 Landie had an external Cage & a Truck cab. There was a horizontal run across the back off the cab, the Harnesses went out the cabs rear window, over the bar & bolted to the floor behind the cab.
I rolled it 3 times, & did an end over once....Much fun-ness!
Getting too old to be shaken about like that anymore though :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
Neilyman
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 21 Nov 2004, 17:20
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 16:00

somehow i dont see a kevlar bucket seat collapsing due to a harness strapped down to the rear seatbelt bolt positions. This has been the fastening technique used in most of the rally cars i've seen. Fastening into the rear seatbelt mount position gives an angle compliant with the blue book does it no?

however, I cannot recommend using harnesses with a standard seat as i can see the logical progression of penskis diagram
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby penski » 11 Aug 2005, 17:20

I wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of angle.

Even a Kevlar bucket will sheer if the angle is acute enough. I've seen it happen (luckily the guy's shoulders dislocated and the impact was *only* around 25-30mph). Remember you are subjecting it to a large and sudden load which is unlike what it was designed for.

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 18:16

penski wrote:you are subjecting it to a large and sudden load.*n

you not got buckets in yours then neily :P
User avatar
Herbie_Flowers
Diehard Chevetter
Diehard Chevetter
 
Posts: 1638
Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 06:55
Location: Telford

Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 18:25

penski wrote:I wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of angle.

Even a Kevlar bucket will sheer if the angle is acute enough. Remember you are subjecting it to a large and sudden load which is unlike what it was designed for.

*n


surely that's exactly what a kevlar seat IS designed for? my judgement on the guy who's seat snapped would be dont buy cheap or 2nd hand seats.

WRC cars attach the harness to a part of the roll cage - a large crossmember which comes across the rear of the seat about level with the drivers chest, so there is some drop from the seat eyes but not much, supporting P's theory.
Last edited by shuvit-tim on 11 Aug 2005, 18:33, edited 1 time in total.
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby Neilyman » 11 Aug 2005, 18:27

Herbie_Flowers wrote:
penski wrote:you are subjecting it to a large and sudden load.*n

you not got buckets in yours then neily :P


You mean to catch it all???

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
Neilyman
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
Admin and dirty rotten egg!
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 21 Nov 2004, 17:20
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Postby novadrive-motorsport » 11 Aug 2005, 18:47

Shuvit Tim asked me to have a look at this and see what i thought, so here i am again!

The Blue Book (Motorsport bible for those who aren't aware) does say that ideally a 10 degree deviation should be the maximum, but a 45 degree deviation is acceptable. but if you think back to penskis diagram, if you have a 45 degree angle that distance is greater than if it was horizontal (think sides of a square compared to a diagonal through it) and so it's going to want to pull down. A kevlar or composite seat will collapse if there's enough pressure put on it, as they aren't built to take stress in that direction.

However in practice lots of people will bolt it to the rear seat floor, as it's sometimes the only available place to do so if they have a) no horizontal roll bar, b) 4 point harnesses. My rally car has them mounted to the rear floor, but i did stump up extra for 3 inch belts and the most expensive seat i could justify, just incase the proverbial poo hits the fan!

So i think that in an ideal world we'd all listen to common sense and reason and mount them on the roll bar horizontal, but due to limitations we have to do the best with what we've got. not that i'm in any way condoning comprimising on saftey of course!

Cheers,

Justin


Neilyman Edit....Penski, not Neily
User avatar
novadrive-motorsport
`L` Plate Newbie
`L` Plate Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 17 Dec 2004, 19:19
Location: Carmarthen, South Wales

Postby penski » 11 Aug 2005, 21:33

shuvit-tim wrote:
penski wrote:I wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of angle.

Even a Kevlar bucket will sheer if the angle is acute enough. Remember you are subjecting it to a large and sudden load which is unlike what it was designed for.

*n


surely that's exactly what a kevlar seat IS designed for? my judgement on the guy who's seat snapped would be dont buy cheap or 2nd hand seats.


The guy had brand new seats. Certainly not cheap either. His name's David Martin - has rallied since the early eighties and preps both his cars and others. Used to compete rather succesfully in a Nova and has had all sorts of nice tin :)

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby penski » 11 Aug 2005, 21:40

And good post, Justin :)

Sure, in an Ideal world we'd all have (and be allowed to, in our sport of choice) multi-point, fully-welded-and-swaged cages but...We don't. That means that sometimes compromises need to be made. As Justin noted, you can make up slightly by using thicker webbing but, if I were running a cage without a suitable crossbar, I'd have one added.

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby shuvit-tim » 12 Aug 2005, 01:11

this is all true.

but on a different tangent...

a cage is designed to take stress in very specific places. it is also designed so that it has weak points, so that if it is ever going to fail it doesnt fail in a place that will result in someones injury (my cage will fail over the rear arches). is it not unadvisable to just add bits to a cage and just completely throw out any careful design consideration? also would it not negate the FIA homologation approval on the cage?

p.s - not trying to start ruptions, just felt like a bit of curious discussion!
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

Tim
User avatar
shuvit-tim
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
Tight arsed, ex-Stoodant Chevetter
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 23:31
Location: worcester / warrington, UK

Postby penski » 12 Aug 2005, 08:17

I wouldn't add it myself - as I said, I'd have one added by the cage manufacturer.

I've done it before but I will always argue safety considerations with scrutineers.

"You're not allowed a horizontal strut there..."

"Well it's my life at risk if I don't..."

*n
YOUUUUUUUUUUUU JUICER!
penski
Advanced Motorist
Advanced Motorist
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 09 Aug 2005, 11:42
Location: NE3

Postby Shoveitpusher » 12 Aug 2005, 19:58

harness bars are a relatively modern invention, belts below the shoulders have been in use for abolutely ages and the number of seats collapsing as i recall started to occur big time when composite seats were invented. one problem with composite much more than steel is you cannot see or feel faults until they fail big time.

like most things it's a question of keeping away from extremes and using good engineering judgement and a degree of common sense. doing something just because it is fashionable or knee jerking ends up with fire extinguishers that don't put out fires, a need to have a crash helmet just because the event is called a stage rally and needing to change belts every 5 years whether you do an event every week or 2 a year.

your diagramm assumes the body is a rigid body, in actual fact as the body goes forword it will compress under the pressure of the belts. thus leading to pressure on the seats anyway. in case you don't think the belts strecth that much remember back to you wizzing round fields in a mini. were your belts a bit looser at the end of the day? mine certainly were after eash run when i was autocrossing. also keep an eye out for pictures of rolls, it's not uncommon to see the driver appearing out of the door whilst still belted in!
Peter C
Shoveitpusher
Classic Old Timer
Classic Old Timer
 
Posts: 812
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 19:16
Location: Norfolk


Return to Anything else

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron