could you make a chevette 6R4?

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could you make a chevette 6R4?

Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 18:27

been watching far too many group B rallying films this week.

Would it be possible to build a chevette 6R4?

As far as i'm aware, it would need to be either a 3 litre V6 or a 2.0l turbo.

We know a 2 litre turbo can be fitted, byldenstein did it. However, to be a true 6R4 the engine would have to be in the back.

Also, would it be possible to fit 4wd running gear and connect a gearbox to the rear engine setup?

So come on greatest minds of chevetteness....... starting from a spaceframe one would presume, COULD you build a chevette 6R4 :!: :?:

[don't worry i havent finally flipped my lid - this is purely hypothetical!]
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 19:03

Starting with a suitable spaceframe, anything is possible (within the bounds of physics obviously!). It would be a heck of a car if anyone could actually achieve it. The V6 in the Metro was a stonking engine, later to grace the XJ220 in turbocharged form. Not sure what we could replace this with in our chevette 6r4! I think the transmission could be tricky. All in, I'm sure with a lot of engineering skill and ingenuity it would be possible!
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 19:10

well ideally we'd keep it vauxhall. the VXR has a 2 litre turbo in it.........this would also give the advantage of being a modern engine which bits can actually be found. Failig this their is the good old XE which we had a turbo fitted in calibra form.

As for a 3 litre, all the 3 litre cars i can thnk of such as the omega were straight 6s? the omega had a 2.5 V6, so we could bore and port that out to a 3 litre?

as for running gear, the only two options i can think of would be to actually use existing 6R4 running gear, or failing this RUF modify porches to make them 4WD as well as mid engined, so some form of running gear from that. Problem is that these kind of parts are going to cost tens of thousands of pounds :?
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 19:25

Find a knackered old Interceptor FF, I mean one so knackered that when you open the doors they fall off. Take the 7 litre V8 and the full Ferguson four wheel drive system and install it in reverse in the chevette. Then what you would need to do I suppose is to have some new driveshafts machined up to spin the wheels in the other direction, or is it possible to swap the shafts round. Ah, no. What you need is make a crownwheel with teeth on the reverse face so the motion is acting on the other side of the driveshaft, so forcing it in the 'wrong' direction, or the right one for our application. There is probably a fatal flaw in this plan, most notably the fact it would never make to the end of a rally stage due to its amazing propensity for unleaded.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 19:28

if it was a V8 then it would be an 8R4 lol. you've been reading to much practical performance car magazine doive! or was it retrocar!?

now, if we built a large wooden badger........

good could you just imagine driving a chevette 6R4? oh mummy.
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 19:31

You may be right on the magazine front. Those magazines are very bad for your financial health: see How to throw away all your hard earned on a big Bavarian straight six by Doive.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 19:43

lmfao :lol: . now - back to topic - the 6R4
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 20:47

I would have to say its very possible. In fact, if you are willing to donate your shell as a prototype, and if everyone on the forum (110 members) were willing to give just 20 quid each we could raise over two grand! With this money I would bugger off to the Bahamas....er, I mean we could invest it in converting your car into a 6R4! I would even leave the safety of scotland to come down and help. Be the envy of your mates with your Impreza killing chevette. What do you say??
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Postby Neilyman » 23 Feb 2005, 21:00

Doive, no need to do anything expensive to make the `reverse` FF chassis go the `right` way...just turn the axles over 180 deg....don`t you ever watch Scrapheap Challenge?..:)
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 21:32

Good point Neil, I was trying in my head to visualise the driveshaft turning the pinions and work out what needed done to make them spin the other way. Managed to convince myself that swapping the driveshafts round would do the job, much the same as turning the axle through 180 degrees. So thats that problem sorted, all we need now is a rusty Interceptor FF. Any offers?
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 21:39

if you get everyone to donate 20 quid mat ei'll donate my shell. oh, only on the basis that i keep the 6R4 after! :P or at least whatever we end up bastardising together lol
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 22:01

I tell you what, I reckon with two grand we could have ourselves a right proper little car. If anyone is interested in a Chevettes.com project car, make your cheques payable to Doive and send them to Edinburgh. I'm well enough known for all my chevette parcels, they will reach me.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 22:20

i'm absolutely certain that with 2 grand we good have a wonderful car. but we'd never agree on whether it would be a classic restoration or a beast of a rally car lol :lol:
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Postby Doive » 23 Feb 2005, 23:19

The probelm is that of ownership and who could use it. If everyone donates 20 quid, then there is some justification in the argument that they should ahve equal share in it. To that I say horse feathers. Tim, you and I are the masterminds behind this scheme (you with the mad idea, me with the financial know-how) and I say we have equal rights - you can own it (sort out the tax, insurance and petrol etc.) and I shall drive it. Does that sound fair? :lol: :P
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Postby shuvit-tim » 23 Feb 2005, 23:38

if i tax it, and insure it etc and own it, i keep it, in worcester, but you are allowed to come and drive it whenever you want.

or we use it for motorsport use, i drive, you co-drive
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Postby Doive » 24 Feb 2005, 01:50

I used to read maps in the boy scouts, I got a badge for it! Therefore i would be singularly useless at navigating. Believe I would also be useless at driving as I don't have that instinct needed to make a good rally driver - a complete disregard for their own safety! I mean that in a nice way of course. I have no real desire to drive a car quickly, and so I believe I would be a spectacular failure as a rally driver. I am willing to be proven wrong however.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 24 Feb 2005, 10:54

learn as you go chief! however a chevette 6R4 may be a steep navigational learning curve!
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Postby Shellysowner » 24 Feb 2005, 11:08

I'm not convinced a chevette is the best base for a 6r4-alike. Still anything is possible with time and money but I'd recomment the 'build a massive space frame and just use the chevette body' approach. You could have double-wishbone suspension...anything you like. No need to stay original if you're being so unoriginal. Is there a class of rallying for heavily modified cars? (oh and I think a v8 is an excellent idea by the way).
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Postby shuvit-tim » 24 Feb 2005, 11:46

only really rung what you brung days as group B was banned.

i agree, just start with a space frame and get fibreglass panels that approximate the chevette stick on. you could hide any 'not quite right proportions' with huge a great aerodynamic fibreglass bodykit
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Postby Doive » 24 Feb 2005, 13:06

You mean like Austin Rover did with the oh-so-subtle Metro 6R4? I think its one of the best looking rally cars of all time, simply because it was a Metro that could slay Quattros! Fantastic. The ARG development team had a pitiful budget compared to the big boys at Ford with the RS200, and yet look what they came up with.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 24 Feb 2005, 18:46

yeah but bare in mind the ford team only had one year at the reigns before it was banned. Who knows what might have been with a few years of tweaking like the audis had
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Postby Doive » 24 Feb 2005, 19:17

The RS200 was a brutal and awesome car, if I recall correctly it had a turbo'd twin cam pinto driving it? 500 odd hp isn't to be sneezed at. Having said that the 425bhp of the 6R4 in full rally spec would have been pretty amazing as well. I agree, if both of these cars had been given the development time the Quattro had then they would have been outstanding.

Sadly the rules were so lax in those days that spectators could stand two feet from the track as these brutes roared past at 100mph. I remember a scene from the acropolis rally where Didier Auriol was driving the Lancia S4 in 1984, he was tearing up this dusty straight at stupid speeds and spectators were literally standing back off the road as he approached! Absolute madness. The whole thing was an accident waiting to happen. I think it was a little unfair to blame the cars, there were a few accidents but if the spectator rules had been tightened up sufficiently at the time then perhaps we would have got to see the battle between all the group B cars come to a head properly! Quattro vs S4 vs 205 M16 vs RS200 vs 6R4 etc etc. Wow.
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Postby hsr2.6 » 24 Feb 2005, 19:45

why not take the running gear from a cav 2.0ltr 4x4 and transplant that
rally drivers do it sideways.............well the quick ones do....................
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Postby shuvit-tim » 24 Feb 2005, 19:59

contemplated that. particularly as i have the running gear from a cav 4x4 :D
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Postby Doive » 24 Feb 2005, 20:14

Ah, so this was a pointed question - you little sneak Tim! You have been thinking about the Cav swap all along. Why didn't you come straight out and say "Do you think I should drop Cav 4x4 running gear into my chevette guys?" I think it would work very well, just like the guy in Retro Cars who built up the mk1 Golf with synchro running gear. With time, money and expertise anything is possible.
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