Front wheel camber

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Front wheel camber

Postby Doive » 13 Jan 2005, 05:25

This is something I have noticed on my car from day one, but when I looked out at her in the car park at work today it was very clear that she is running lots of negative camber (the top of the wheels are further in than the bottoms - is that negative?), I would estimate about 5 to 10 degrees each wheel. The car drives and handles fine, no bumps or tramlining. I'm more concerned about unnecessary stresses on the front suspension. Does anyone think this is a problem, or am I just worrying for no reason? Would placing axle stands under the front crossmember have caused any problems (although the camber was big before I did that), or is there any points at the front where you shouldn't jack? The car also sits quite low at the front but I think this is tired springs.
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Postby Neilyman » 13 Jan 2005, 06:12

If it`s not broken, don`t fix it
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Postby Doive » 13 Jan 2005, 06:23

I like your thinking. Ignore it till the wheels fall off. It just caught me a little unawares this afternoon thats all - the car looked as if it was trying to do the splits in the wind.
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Postby Shellysowner » 13 Jan 2005, 14:00

Don't worry doive, I did the same double take myself the other day. As far as I can tell its normal (and yes, in at the top is negative).
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Postby Neilyman » 13 Jan 2005, 14:57

It`s probably due to your tired springs. As the wheel goes up on the suspension, it don`t go straight up, it goes in at the top in an arc.
If you jack it up using the o/e jacking point, the wheel off the ground will be top out, pos camber, it`s just the way the sussie geometry works.
The wheels follow this sort of pattern (--------) with normal being in the middle. Don`t worry yer wheels won`t fall off :)

Now if you had a Morris Marina that looked like that, I`d tell you to worry.
They did it `cos the chassis legs were spreading at the front as the x-member rusted away!!!
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Postby shuvit-tim » 13 Jan 2005, 16:16

Doive wrote: Ignore it till the wheels fall off. It just caught me a little unawares this afternoon


it'll certainly catch you unaware if the wheels do fall off! :lol: :P

there's nothing more surreal than seeing one of your wheels bounce off over a hedge. :?
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

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Postby Doive » 13 Jan 2005, 16:36

Did a Marina not have kingpins as they used the Minor base unit? Then I'd worry. Thanks for the reassurance guys, I now feel safe to drive to work in her.
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Postby Neilyman » 13 Jan 2005, 16:46

They did have silly shock absorbers! The cure for a knock kneed Marina was to drill the chassis legs, insert a theaded bar, pull the legs striaght & weld a new x-member across the legs.........EEK!! :shock:
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Postby Shellysowner » 13 Jan 2005, 19:19

Do marinas have torsion bar front ends + stupid shockers like minors then?
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Postby Neilyman » 13 Jan 2005, 19:25

Sure do, but you can get a conversion to fit `proper` shockers.
I know a bloke who`s done that, his Marina`s a real mint concours type.......Light metallic green with a Tan vinyl Roof........
Now that IS sad....LOL

Good engines though especially the TC.
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Postby Shellysowner » 13 Jan 2005, 19:33

That's not what I've been told - I heard the old 1800 was hardly any more powerful than the A series!
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Postby Neilyman » 13 Jan 2005, 21:03

Eh? It is an A series! but above 1300 they were called B series, same design only a bit bigger. they did something right, they made millions of them. The TC was pretty quick for it`s time, I had one.
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Postby Shellysowner » 13 Jan 2005, 21:14

Well, yeah, but it've always differentiated between the two by A series and B series. One of the reasons why I thought the B series is meant to be cr*p is 'cos of the long stroke and I also heard they were unreliable (did you break down a lot?) Don't forget it'd also be a lot heavier than an A series.
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Postby Doive » 13 Jan 2005, 23:46

The B series and A series were completely unrelated engines just happened to be from the same manufacturer. The B was a torquey old beast as fitted to such a wide variety of cars as MGB's and Marina's, then later as the O series in the Princesses (the O being and OHC version of the B). I think the reputation for unreliability may be unjust, from what I've heard these can soldier on for maybe 200,000 miles with just regular servicing. They are a seriously heavy lump though, and in the series one Marinas caused all sorts of hedge-bound understeer problems.

The A series as found in the Mini/allegro etc was a revvy engine and delivered good power for its size but next to bugger all torque. I think in the Marina it delivered 60HP, earth shaking stuff. The B-series as fitted to the TC gave around 95HP so as many road testers of the day said, it could fair move!

I'd love a nice green marina with a tan vinyl roof, very tasteful I think. But then I'd have anything with a BL roundel on it.....
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Postby Shellysowner » 14 Jan 2005, 01:01

Yay, I didn't want to call neily wrong but doive did it for me, cheers doive. I think the A series would've been 62bhp 'cos that was the standard leyland 1275 tune of the late 70's
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Postby Doive » 14 Jan 2005, 01:28

They did loads of variations on the A series theme during the seventies. One car would be fitted with a 1 1/4 SU to give 55HP, another perhaps a 1 1/2 to give 62HP, different camshafts for different cars, also different pistons and head gaskets to change the compression ratio. Then of course the MG versions with a pair of SU's to give 75Hp or so. Madness. Sense would have dictated perhaps three tune levels - standard, economy and performance. But no. Then the A-plus came along and kind of sorted everything out. They even fitted that in the Montego (1275) - can you imagine a Mondeo with the 1.3 Endura engine from a Ka?? Great engine though.
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Postby Shellysowner » 14 Jan 2005, 01:37

Wow, you really are on knowledgeable guy aren't you doive. We've just got to wein (is that how you spell it?) you off those fwd cars and then you'll be really cool. All this talk of SUs brings me nicely onto something I was wondering about today after seeing 2 stromberg 175CDs on the bay. What are the differences between the 175CD and 150CD (I know the 175CD can supply more mixture so presumably has bigger holes in it somewhere!). Can they both bolt onto the same fitting? Could I take the top of a 150CD off and screw it onto my 175CD making it look like a 150CD and therefore neatly avoiding having to tell those nice people at lancaster insurance?
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Postby Neilyman » 14 Jan 2005, 01:40

Excuse me! If they`re completely unrelated, why is one called `A`, & one called `B`?, the B is just a bigger version of the A. look at them side by side, they look the same, just one is bigger/stronger than the other as it would have to be to allow for the extra capacity. I don`t think you could bore a Moggie 1000 engine to 1800!! The most you can take them out to is round 1430. So if you make another version, the same only bigger, it can go from 1500 upto 2.3 Landrover!l & as it`s a second version, Shall we call it a `B`??
In the days when these engines were being made, manufacturers did not design brand new engines, they mearly modified & altered existing & proven units. The A series took over from the side valve in the late 40`s early 50`s & went on in it`s various guises until the last of the Minis .....not bad for a gutless piece of sh1te!

Doive!...How can the `O` be the same as the `B`?. It`s totally different, in the block, as there is no camshaft , tappet box, pushrods , inspection covers, dizzy drive, etc...That IS a completely unrelated engine.
I`m not nit picking you understand, but I`m wrong either.;) :lol:

What`s 2BHP between frieinds? :)
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Postby Doive » 14 Jan 2005, 01:46

I'm not really that knowledgeable - you just need to find the right sources. Lets just say I've spent many an evening reading educational material when I should have been studying for real. Although it all paid off last year when a management (ugh...spit it out like a piece of year old liquorice) lecturer asked me to give a presentation on the BL/Honda merger, thinking it would be sufficiently obscure to fox me for weeks. Within two days I had the whole lot written, and I also managed to prove that the notes she had on the subject were utter b0ll0cks. I can't stand management.

I digress somewhat. I saw those CD175's also and had the same thoughts, I would have thought they should bolt straight on if they have a 3/4 inch throat (think thats the standard CD150 measurement) and would probably give a much appreciated boost in performance. Not sure about swapping the dashpots, but then the nice man from the insurance company probably wouldn't have any idea unless you pointed it out to them. I'm sure someone on here will be able to point you in the right direction.
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Postby Shellysowner » 14 Jan 2005, 01:52

This has all got a bit too technical for me I'm afraid (never owned a b series powered car to start with so never eally researched them - just read stuff about how they were unreliable, didn't rev very well etc.) but I'm pretty sure the B series was developed from some old morris engine that started out at 12xx cc, then went to 1496 was it for the mga and later 1800. I also read earlier today on the web that later developments were the O series, M16 as fitted to rover 600s and then the t16 but I can't find that page anymore.

According to david vizard if you stroke and bore an a series you can get it out to about 1600cc but you have to have a particular block so that the bores don't crack.
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Postby Shellysowner » 14 Jan 2005, 02:01

I did actually bid for 'em but decided to make my limit 30 quid inc p&p.. someone else outbid me but then they proably wanted 'em for a tr so I don't really mind that much.
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Postby Doive » 14 Jan 2005, 02:22

Sorry Neily, but the B was made way before the A. Saying the B is a bigger version of the A is like saying the 2279cc engine is a bigger version of the 1159cc Viva engine. The two are completely independent and unrelated. They both have four cylinders, and there the similarity ends.

I agree manufacturers didn't make unique engines for every application, but BMC (BL) had several base units they could modify to suit their needs. These were A, B, C, E and of course the V8. The A spawned the A-plus unit, the B was developed into the O (ohc), the E modified into the E6. Each engine range had unique blocks and internals. The A was designed by the same engineering team who designed the B and so some engineering solutions are common between them, but apart from that they are entirely unique.
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Postby Neilyman » 14 Jan 2005, 03:29

Oh well, I learnt what I know through owning dozens of BL motors , working on them, swapping engines , racing Mini`s & Landrovers & generally being hands on with them. That didn`t leave me any time to read up on them & study the specs, unless it was in a Haynes! ;)
I`ve never heard of an `E`, please enlighten me.
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Postby Doive » 14 Jan 2005, 04:04

The E series was the engine as fitted to the Maxi 1.5 and 1.7 first, then the allegro, then they nailed two more cylinders on to make the E6 and fitted it transversely into the Princess in 2200 form. The E was developed into a 1.6, called the R series and dropped into the first Maestros. The MG Maestros fitted with the twin carb version of this engine were notorious for not starting when hot. Then Austin-Rover took the R, modified it beyond all recognition and called it the S series, and fitted it to maestros and montegos. Not a bad engine in S series guise by all accounts.
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Postby Neilyman » 14 Jan 2005, 04:30

Have you got a big book there called the ultimate history of BL engines? :D
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