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Options for Rear Axle

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2005, 15:12
by iety2004
Hi i read somewhere on a different website, that us can use an Ford Atlas rear axles.

It said that the work cars use this axle

Is his true? and if so what cars are these fitted to becasue its all before my time.

cheers

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2005, 15:23
by shuvit-tim
standard axle is good for up to 100BHP

not sure on the atlas axle although i do seem to remember hearing that somewhere before so there may be some truth in it.

Your alternatives are:

manta A - expect to pay 50-75 quid fo rone without the torque tube and 100-150 for one with the torque tube. Having said that there are bargains out there to be had. to fit this you will need to turret the rear shocks using manta GTE shocks (billies as standard :D )

manta B - expect to pay about 20-50 quid at a scrappy, there are plenty about, or just buy a dead manta and strip it. You will again need to turret the shocks, but you can get them off the manta you are getting the axle off. You will however, also need to fit wider arches as the axle is slightly longer than the chevette standard

for the manta axles, you will need to change the mounting brackets to the other sid eof the axle with some creative welding, but its an easy job apparently, I think you also need to put the panhard rod onto the opposite side as the mountings will nowbe sat where the panhard rod should be.

chevette HS axle, erm, rare as rocking horse poo. Again I think you need the wider arches, be prepared to part with an obscene amount of money and three kidneys.

some prop work may be necessary for each of these axles, just to get the right splines, or yuo may be able to change it over at the Universal joint?

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2005, 16:46
by Shoveitpusher
you my find an atlas on a chevette but i don't think they were a works fit. i'm fairly sure works cars had 4HA axles which may have been jaguar based. either way to fit an atlas will require a lot of welding, it would need 5 linking and some means of spring mounting. the prop would need a sliding joint.

origional works cars had kadette axles complete with alloy torque tubes (which broke in no time) they were Gte axles.

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2005, 18:21
by iety2004
Ah German Ebay it is then.

I bet postage won't be cheap

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 09:31
by Shoveitpusher
iety2004 wrote:Ah German Ebay it is then.

I bet postage won't be cheap


at the risk of spoiling your fun. if you seriously want to start competing don't go changing the car around at first.

put your money into stuff you need. a sump guard, tyres, wheels, brakes. a manta will supply uprated brakes. tyres if you want to keep 13" wheels then try the motorsport scrappies or ebay, you want ATS 5 spoke wheels which are 6x13, strong but cheap and plentiful. you will need seats, belts are a good idea, the navigator will need plotting lights. spots will depend on where you compete, but a good set would be useful. a cage isn't essential but a rear cage would be a good idea.

there are other types of rallying you can do in a standard 1300 (endurance - think welsh and revival) historics are opening up to younger cars.

get out and do some events rather than uprate the car.

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 09:54
by iety2004
The car i'm buying has all of this stuff already,as it already had taken parts in road rallying. Just doing some research for future development of the car.

I'll can do some up and coming events and i don't really have to spend anything on the car.

Just seeing what the options are and which way i want to take it.

The first thing i will get is a Roll Cage (Navigator is worried). Then some extra wheels & tyre combinations. Then an brake upgrade when the time is right, i'll will just improve front brakes with the Volvo calipers and Carltons discs.

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 13:21
by Shoveitpusher
i realised that having just recognised your name on british rally.

get out and do events, then see what you want/ need to change, some drivers are very hard on brakes but soft on the powertrain, others the opposite (how do you slow down? - i have a feeling my bent prop is to do with slowing down on the gears rather than the brakes). it's very hard to explain just how different competition driving is to any other type of driving - including practicing.

a cage would be a good idea, though most of my road rallying was done without one (rolled once) start with a rear hoop if funds are tight.

on a prepared car i would check the harness and seat mounts, not everyone has the same standards.

the best advice is to enjoy

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 15:12
by shuvit-tim
agreed. be certain to check the seat mounts are sturdy. Saw a car with buckets in once and the floorpan was rotten where he'd drilled them through. If he'd have crashed he'd have been thrown about like a rag doll. If in doubt, weld a steel plate in and drill through that as well.

I'd say go for the cage. you'll be amazed the extra confidence it'll give you which will take seconds off of your time. If you shop around you can get a 6 point second hand on the cheap. (mine cost me 60 quid!) But if buying second hand make sure everything is PERFECTLY straight and that there are no signs of stress, creasing etc in the paintwork. You may also need to reinforce the feet on a second hand cage.

from what i've seen speeds on road rallies are often faster than they are on stage rallies with most areas without any marshalls. I would say the need for a cage on road rallying is greater if you are driving on the limit.

I believe it was shoveitpusher who advised me "comprimise on safety and you're a long time dead". put your money into safety and run with what you have. Use what you have in terms of performance to gain experience, this will be more valuable to you than a faster car. When you've got that experience worry about adding the gogo factor.

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 17:43
by iety2004
It got to be said but i use the brakes to slow down, seem cheaper to replace than gearboxes and drive train components.

The first thing i will buy is a cage. My mate crashed his 306 GTI-6 and oh my god! Lukcy to be alive! The roof took the seats head rest off it came in so much. The car hasn't got one straight panel. So that scared me a bit.

I think it will give me a bit more confidence as well.

So Cage first, can't scimp on saftey features.

Are there many second hand cages going for the Chevette/Kadett?
I can't find any.

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2005, 17:49
by shuvit-tim
I was lucky, i put a post up on hee and someone emailed me the next day.

Your best bet is to keep your eye on ebay as there are a few roadrally spec cars coming up on there now and then. Most of thos have cages and othe bits you could use. Other places to try are the rallying forums. Put up a few 'wanted' posts and you should get offered one sooner rather than later. try www.rallyusedparts.co.uk

i'll have a look and see what i can find for you in the meantime

PostPosted: 11 Feb 2005, 14:36
by Shoveitpusher
go look at that site Iety top of the list is a chevette 'go rallying' kit, prices are good as well. you can weld in a diagonal but it's not needed anyway. just check for rust at the bottom of the legs (internal not external, give it a tap)

question is how am i going to get the bits i want back to Norfolk.

PostPosted: 11 Feb 2005, 16:10
by shuvit-tim
i'd definitely buy that cage so long as it looks okay iety. 80 quid is a bargain. The diagnoal isnt necessary, but i'm wleding one into muine just incase.

What bits you after shoveitpusher? i'm looking at the 4 compomotives and the quickrack.

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2005, 13:10
by Shoveitpusher
gearbox plus the big wheels and rack.

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2005, 13:34
by shuvit-tim
i believe andy has already had th erack as part of a package including th emanta A axle with LSD. I'm not going for any of it now as i realistically have mor eimportant things to budget for! like an engine! :lol:

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2005, 18:00
by hsr2.6
i spoke to the guy last night and he want's to sell the car whole and as by luck one of my mates ,is seeing it tonight :lol:

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2005, 18:13
by hsr2.6
shoveitpusher wrote:you my find an atlas on a chevette but i don't think they were a works fit. i'm fairly sure works cars had 4HA axles which may have been jaguar based. either way to fit an atlas will require a lot of welding, it would need 5 linking and some means of spring mounting. the prop would need a sliding joint.

origional works cars had kadette axles complete with alloy torque tubes (which broke in no time) they were Gte axles.


They started out using the kadette gte axle then switched too the 4ha in the hs.when the hsr came along they changed to the atlas untill it was homologated into grp B where they changed back too the 4ha

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2005, 19:58
by shuvit-tim
hmm that might mean andy may want my manta A axle after all then!

PostPosted: 16 Feb 2005, 09:20
by Shoveitpusher
if you don't want the box i do ( as long as it's getrag), i have a limited source of getrag internals.