1.3 Nova SR Engine in a Kadett - officially hijacked.

From the humble 1256 to meaty V8`s, swaps, rebuilds, tunning, etc.

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Postby hsr2.6 » 22 Mar 2005, 22:52

:twisted: you got to watch the hijackers :twisted:
rally drivers do it sideways.............well the quick ones do....................
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Postby shuvit-tim » 25 Mar 2005, 11:01

i'm afraid i dont know the answer mate. I dont think anyone will as no-one has tried it. Drop TJM Tim an email at TJ Motorsport. There is a link through this site or he is in the members list as TJM.

He's generally quite helpful and gave me some good advice

The best thing you can do with this is just offer it up i guess and see what's what and what doesnt quite fit
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

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Postby iety2004 » 27 Mar 2005, 15:36

Tim, what shape is the sump on the SR engine?
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Postby Guest » 27 Mar 2005, 18:02

hope this helps: the 1.8 manta and 2.0 manta have different gearboxes so one of the two may fit,and i was under the impression that a 2.0ltr astra engine fits onto a nova gear box (think its an f20) and the astra engine definatly fits the manta engine (are you still with me).So in theory the nova engine should fit onto a manta 1.8 box. Then you would just have to get a prop made.(When i put a manta engine and box in i made one up from parts of both the chevette prop and manta one and it worked fine although there was some welding involved. :D
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Postby lewis p » 27 Mar 2005, 18:06

Anonymous wrote:hope this helps: the 1.8 manta and 2.0 manta have different gearboxes so one of the two may fit,and i was under the impression that a 2.0ltr astra engine fits onto a nova gear box (think its an f20) and the astra engine definatly fits the manta box (are you still with me).So in theory the nova engine should fit onto a manta 1.8 box. Then you would just have to get a prop made.(When i put a manta engine and box in i made one up from parts of both the chevette prop and manta one and it worked fine although there was some welding involved. :D
is how it was suposed to read and shold of signed in first :oops: and by the way i have a 1.3 sr nova engine if any one is intrested
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Postby Festerfly » 28 Mar 2005, 19:24

ive got a nova gte with good strong engine and box going if someones got some cash???? lol

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Postby iety2004 » 28 Mar 2005, 22:49

Im gonna use the 1.3 SR engine that lewis has offered me

Just go to figure out about the sump and the pick up problem

Could this be solved by dry sumping the engine?

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Postby Doive » 28 Mar 2005, 23:57

Dry sumping would be a possibility as that would give you a nice flat sump pan to clear the crossmember. There are companies who do pump and tank kits for various cars but with a little investigation I would guess you could build up one of your own. People have used all sorts of pumps in the past.
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Postby iety2004 » 29 Mar 2005, 00:04

So its something i should look into,

I'm gonna collect all the bits i need and then fit them all in one go.

Gonna assemble the engine and gearbox together on my garage floor first

I think dry sumping may be a bit expensive tho
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Postby Doive » 29 Mar 2005, 00:06

If I recall correctly a brand spanking kit of parts is about 300 quid or so. That includes a three stage pump, tank and a sump pan. These are only available for certain applications though, so I would guess you will have to make your own pan.
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Postby iety2004 » 29 Mar 2005, 12:12

Well looked into it and the benifits of this type of oil system seems to make it much better than standard wet type system

But like you said its only some applications,

Mmm waybe its something i should consider after at a later date :?

Thanks for the help
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Postby iety2004 » 28 Aug 2005, 19:22

Right Update.

I mention my plans about my Kadett to my boss at Maxspeed Motorsport and hes thinks it a good idea and is willing to help, because he said it is hard for youngsters to get started in the sport and need people like him to make things easier. He will use all his contacts to try and find the difficult to locate parts and will buy expensive things and i pay him back.

Hes also letting me keep the car down at the workshop. All of this i think is a great help, and in no time i should have the thing ready.

So to clear a few things up in my head, and being too lazy to look myself, which side should the sump pan be, front pulley side or flywheel side?

look at this pic:

1200 astra engine

Another thing is sump baffling. I know its gonna end in tears if i don't, but i read on the brittish rally forum, that some top engine builders are recommending using fuel tank foam (which stop fuel surge) in the sump.

But some people said that it'll break up and damage the engine. Any ideas rally boys?
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Postby iety2004 » 04 Sep 2005, 18:24

Could i use the XE engine mount kits some people sell for rwd conversion? are the mounting points the same on the sr engines?
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Postby shuvit-tim » 04 Sep 2005, 18:46

pm opel turbo - he may know as he has an XE powered nova
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Postby TJM » 04 Sep 2005, 20:32

Hello Everyone,

It is the Manta 1800 Getrag Gearbox not the 2.0 CIH one that will find the Family 2 series of Vauxhall engines, 1600/1800/2000 8V and 16V XE/Ecotec.

Dry sump kits are nearer to £600-£700 plus tanks/pipework and fittings so normally ends up being nearer £1000.

Easiest sump option is the Manta 1800 alloy big wing RWD sump with pickup. Modify the standard sump baffle plate.

Use 1800 Manta RWD engine mounts, sometimes need spacers of approx 10mm thickness to mount onto std crossmember mounts.

Lower anti roll bar by approx 3/4" - 1" using alloy or steel blocks in between rubbers and mounts. Fit longer bolts.

RWD manifold are available for RWD installation for both 8V and 16V but some bulkhead mods may be required to fit. Then you will also need to make a cosspipe to mate upto std exhaust or make a complete new exhaust.

Dizzy wise, fit the front mounted assy of a Manta 1800 with loom and coil. Blank off rear original dizzy hole and seal with gasket or instant gasket sealer.

You will probably have to remove the servo and either fit a bias pedal box or relocate the servo assy or get a remote servo such as a Lockheed.

I think that is about it. Anymore questions place here and I will pop in from time to time.

Cheers
Tim
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Postby Mantadoc » 05 Sep 2005, 00:58

Oh Dear!

The 2.0 CIH is a big old lump of '60s iron with the starter motor on the Passenger (Near) side.

The 1.8 Manta lump has the starter motor on the Drivers (Off) side.

The 5 speed getrag boxes have cast in bell housings unlike the old 4 speed where you could swap them, and yes there were 4 speed 1.8 Mantas (maybe not in the UK).

You can take the gear casette out of a CIH 5 speed and slide it into the casing of a family II 5 speed if strapped.

So there you go same gears different casting.

Also why bother about clutch until you check if a manta clutch fits a 1600 or less, or if a Manta flywheel bolts on to the other engines. look up the clutch plate diameter at a factors across the models for a clue, or see if the manta clutch kit fits any of the others, QH books tell you diameters of plates and no. of splines and size info.

(Hmm downloaded QH clutch catalogue PDF and looks like you're out of luck. Manta is 203*25*14 which I take to be correctly or otherwise 203 MM Dia, 25mm input chaft and 14 splines. Only the 16V 4*4s and V6s seem to have the 25*14 in common. Maybe the boss from one plate can be used in another or something)

What's all this worry about sumps and pickup pipes too?

My first Manta 6 Cyl conversion had the straight bits cut out of 3 or 4 pickup pipes welded together (quicker than going out for pipe).

Straight 6 monza lumps have the sump at the front, our first one used a sump at the rear (two manta sumps welded together back of one and front of another) and surged to the front.

Second sump was the monza sump, tank trimmed off it and Worked out the volume required and made a wing tank which when welded to the sump fitted in front of rack and behind the anti-roll bar (I'm sorry but I think the conversions I have seen using a 3.0 where they either throw away the anti-roll bar or worse lower it until the drop links are 2" and BELOW the wish bone are only storing up trouble, I used to have to seam weld the roll bar mounts on Mantas or they ripped out the chassis rails, some may say I used to go a bit 'ard. Imagine it going side to side with small links as a car with a heavy lump rolls in corners?).

Basic method was this, sump on bench, Tank cut off at a height to clear bits and bobs. Ever make a box out of a piece of paper? Did the same with steel, weld nicely, check for leaks with a very thin liquid, correct if necessary. Weld to sump, close any other holes.

My first 3.0 litre in a mates Manta we started 10am Friday, I think it was in Friday night and maybe running. Spend Saturday fighting the exhaust and dispairing (remember this was the first rear tank sump on the next 3.0 the exhaust was easy as I tucked the downpipe 2 into 1 in the space behind the crossmember and in front of the box).

Also be aware we had to move the crossmember between the front of the manta chassis rails, and replace it and sort the cooling, radiator mounts and fuel injection.


Long story short the guy went to work in it Sunday night all be it with a temporary bonnet.

Our lucky breaks were the 3.0 fitted the CIH box no prob (checked well in advance). We also ran the engine up with no headers while it sat on a stump next to the manta the week before so we knew it ran and knew how to run it in the car (nice sound spat flames).

We used standard engine mounts (for the 3.0) and modified the crossmember.
We also did a lot of measuring first.

180 used BHP for £200 including buying the engine, get an extra 70 bhp for £200 if you can!

This is just what we did, I'm not recommending any of the methods or procedures. If no-one knows what fits you just have to find your own way.
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Postby Mantadoc » 05 Sep 2005, 01:04

Anyone seen Manta 400.com where they use golf servos to clear 16V turbo bits?

Worth a look

http://www.manta400.netfirms.com/motorsport/

These guys must have a LOT of money!

If I had seen this I probablly wouldn't have paid £175 for a Manta master cylinder and waited a month for it to be made and shipped but ho hum, everyone has a new one for £25 once you buy one :D
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Postby shuvit-tim » 05 Sep 2005, 10:28

iety if you're makin gyour own sum pstill are you wanting it to hold the same volume of oil as a nova sump? if so i'll get the capacities for you.
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Postby iety2004 » 05 Sep 2005, 12:24

I've got lost a bit when reading that then, might just be me,

right im gonna break it down a bit.

im gonna use a 1300SR engine, 1800 OHC Getrag Gearbox, with a modified prop. electric fuel pump and fuel reg, electic fan with a manual electic thermostat, with front mounted oil cooler. performance manifold.

TJM will the 1.8s Manta sump fit the 1300 engine, i thought the 1300 block was shorter. could i just sorten the sump and tig it up? or do the holes mismatch then?

are the starter motors on the same side or will i have to get the tig welder out?

Is there NOS clutch i can buy that will fit the sr flywheel and the splines of the manta gearbox.

And the 1.8s mounts fit the 1300 block with 10mm spacers? mmm..... can you still buy them new? or is it second hand only?

so many question and development to do :?

at least i can get some foresty test time :lol:

but i'll get there and kick some ass on the road rallies in deppest darkest wales :lol:
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Postby iety2004 » 15 Nov 2005, 03:41

Right right right, ive been looking into this for a long time and now can answer some of the questions i once asked at the begining of the thread...... which is good,

The basics is still the same,

small block family 1 engine, maximum of 1400,

i.e. 1.3 & 1.4,

5 speed box

I.e. Manta 1.8 OHC, Ford Type 9 Box, or BMW 240 gearbox with 1.8 manta front gearbox, or a Carlton with a shorten shifter.

Electronic fuel pump,

easy.... any bosch inline fuel fump with adjustable fuel reg, fel filter before the pump.

Electonic coolant fan,

Once again, simple modifications to make anyone fit, a rad+elec fan of any car + electronically controlled thermostat..

As for thr sump nd the custom parts to mak the family 1 engine fit,..... i do belive that the 1.2ohc engine has a sump in the rwd configeration, i.e the deep bit is at the gearbox end.

The engine mounts..... the easiest soloution is to have chassis mounted engine mounts, as most motorsport companies sell these kind of kits.

the only bit im struggling with/ too lazy to go to the libary and find out.

What would be the best way of routing the exhaust manifold? As on the family 1 engines, the manifold is on the N/S of the car, like the hs.

How should i route this with out effect the engine power too much?

sorry 4 repeating myself......again

gareth
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Postby shoveitnz » 14 Apr 2006, 21:56

hey there iety. Just found this thread and I'm very curious about how its all working out....
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http://www.vauxhallviva.com/vivaforum/v ... hp?t=10258
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Postby Doive » 14 Apr 2006, 22:32

Expect a reply from Opel_Charlie, as Iety now likes to be known.
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Postby opel_charlie » 14 Apr 2006, 22:52

Sorry doive but i'm not iety, as far as i know iety has sold it.
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Postby Doive » 15 Apr 2006, 00:05

opel_charlie wrote:Sorry doive but i'm not iety, as far as i know iety has sold it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Must be all the driving. Sorry about that. How did I get you two mixed up??
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 15 Apr 2006, 21:40

I'm quite interested in doing this to my chevette only two questions I would like to ask,

what power would be coming from a 1.3 or 1.4 sr nova engine (standard and modified to race/rally spec)? would I need to change the rear axle from the standard 1256 to something else if I was going to get the engine rebuild for more performance?

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