carlton's?

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carlton's?

Postby ross.cheeks » 16 Apr 2007, 19:30

do the 2ltr cartons use the same stuff as the 1.8 manta i.e gearbox etc.

just been thinking as their rwd and dont go for stupid money,if i just get hold of a whole car and then use all the parts of it inc axel, brakes etc then id be saving myself alot of hastle in sourcing parts aswell.
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 17 Apr 2007, 02:30

Carlton's got an IRS :wink:
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 08:45

IRS?
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Postby Gordo » 17 Apr 2007, 09:24

ross.cheeks wrote:IRS?


Independent Rear Suspension - I reckon that'd be neat on a Chevette - esp' with some decent power 8)

damned spelling - still beat you though :lol:
Last edited by Gordo on 17 Apr 2007, 09:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doive » 17 Apr 2007, 09:24

Intransigent Rodent Specification

or Independent Rear Suspension, depending on where you come from.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 09:36

IRS, ah ok that makes sense, wasnt sure if that was the name for a type of geabox or something.

so is it the same gear box?

what are the engines in them like?

i have all then stuff from the carlton would i be able to fit it to the chevette?, i know it would be alot of work but can it be done i mean and what would be the best way about approaching it.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 10:26

ok sh1t canned that idea, thinking about it i havent really got the space to tackle a project that would need that much level of work.

how good would a tuned to sh1t 1256 or even the 12s be?

oh yeah does a 12s fit straight in to a chevette?
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Postby Shellysowner » 17 Apr 2007, 10:52

ross.cheeks wrote:how good would a tuned to sh1t 1256 or even the 12s be?

oh yeah does a 12s fit straight in to a chevette?


An 1196 would fit reasonably easily into a chevette, however I think I remember reading on this forum somewhere that the prop is different - sean or mark will answer this for you later when they see this thread.

1196's are slightly easier to tune up than 1256s because some tuning parts are available from time to time via ebay.de. Some bits, e.g. inlet manifold, are interchangeable between the two. The 1196 engines are also said to be slightly smoother. Is this worth swapping engines over for these small advantages though? I doubt it.

1256 tuning parts are slightly rarer. Assuming that you are leaving the block in the car and not messing about with the bottom end you'll want a new carb or carbs - twin 150cds or a twin choke weber (there are other carb options too - smaller nikki or wber downdraughts), a cam, an exhaust manifold from me when I get round to making them (which at this rate will be at least the summer), an exhaust system to go with it and of course you'll want to be doing some head work as the head is a highly restrictive element in a 1256.

The great Bill Blydenstein once said something along the lines of it being completely useless doing anything other than a carb and airfilter upgrade on a 1256 unless you do some head work. Power - a typical build with a better carb, a mild road (280 degree) cam, exhaust and manifold and a spot of head work you'll be looking at 80-85bhp I'm told.

Prices:

Twin Stomberg 150cds with linkage - from as little as £25 (requiring rebuild) on fleabay. Full rebuild kits £52.50 or partial ones £25 odd.

Weber (rebuilt) - anything from £100 up, variety of sources including eBay, bare in mind that you will need the correct throttle linkage.

Nikki or weber downdraught carbs with manifolds tend to go for about £50 (eBay again).

Stromberg Manifold - well good luck with that one! After a lot of searching I found my cast Brabham manifold from an HB viva and paid £70 for it.

Inlet manifold for sidedraught weber - a company called Mangoletsi still makes them, £96 is I think how much they are charging. There is a guy in the Viva club selling them for cheaper.

Cams - Piper will re-grind your cam to any of their original profiles for around £100 I think it is. Bear in mind that if you get any other profile than the mild road you will need uprated valve springs and ideally followers too.

Exhaust manifolds, when I get round to doing them, will be about £150.

A 2" straight through ashley exhaust system can be gotten off the shelf from Rally Design. £118 I think they are.

Head work? If you do it yourself then obviously its free. To get a pro to do it is anything from £200 upwards.


My advice would be that if you are looking for pure bhp for your buck then tuning the 1256 is not the best way to go, but it is possible to get a modest hike in power (e.g. just a carb, air filter, some home-spun head work and an exhaust) for a reasonable cost.

The most I've ever heard of from a 1256 is 126bhp but that basically involves either owning a machine shop or having very deep pockets!
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 11:14

well ive got an 12s sitting on an engine stand in uni and its all in peices so i thought while its like that i got work on that.

will need a new head thou as the one that was on the engine was fooked.

im using this engine for my 2nd year project as im building a simulated computer model of it so i can work out roughly what id want to change etc on that then try and reproduce it on the actual engine.
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Postby Shellysowner » 17 Apr 2007, 11:21

ross.cheeks wrote:well ive got an 12s sitting on an engine stand in uni and its all in peices so i thought while its like that i got work on that.

will need a new head thou as the one that was on the engine was fooked.

im using this engine for my 2nd year project as im building a simulated computer model of it so i can work out roughly what id want to change etc on that then try and reproduce it on the actual engine.


In that case Ross it sounds like you have a fair old head start. 1196s have been dynoed up around 90bhp with a few mods. If you've got a machine shop then you could probably make up pretty much anything you want with a little effort. Keep us updated with how it goes.
Doive wrote:I remember last summer being in another Chevette with a quite mad driver, and we were drifting round A class roads at 65mph with the tail sliding progressively on the corners. It was fantastic.

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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 11:29

yeah im going to have to come up with what it will roughly cost but tbh i think it will still be cheaper than a full engine conversion as im not going to have to start changing the rear axel etc.


what are the standard internals like can they take it?

and the gear box ive got the 12s gearbox can that withstand up to around 80-90 bhp
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Postby Shellysowner » 17 Apr 2007, 11:35

Well I can't really comment on an 1196 as I've got little experience of them, but I was told that BB used to say the standard internals of a 1256, when the engine was fully rebuilt and balanced, would not withstand more than 7500 rpm. I would think you've be alright with 80-90bhp in terms of power (although its the torque thats going to do the breaking!). One of the slightly rubbish things about both types of engine is that they have a 3 bearing crank which of course is not ideal.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 11:59

i think that using a 12s or 1256 im more likely to get a finished product and the amount of work involved. and if i build the engine over the next year or so then the cost isnt going to be as bad as it not all coming out at once. and as ive got all of the uni's facilities that will save some cash.
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Postby UpNorth » 17 Apr 2007, 17:14

You could always bit for the Blydenstein engine that's on eBay - over £400 at the last count :shock: . I'd want a bloody good guarantee at that price!
Anyone have a 6R4 for sale? Unfortunately I've only got £1K spare but I could throw in a few eggs to sweeten the deal!
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Postby Harry Flatters » 17 Apr 2007, 17:18

To do the Opel engine and make it easy, you need engine, box, prop, mountings, rad. There's still some messing about after that, but it's all stuff you may have to mess about with anyway if you're tuning a 1256. IMHO the 1196 is the better engine, but modding the 1256 would even things up anyway. I wouldn't use more than 7000 rpm on either engine. If you're doing it, make sure you use the S gearbox - how much power it'll cope with is really down to how you drive it. Both gearboxes have their weak points.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 17 Apr 2007, 18:13

UpNorth wrote:You could always bit for the Blydenstein engine that's on eBay - over £400 at the last count :shock: . I'd want a bloody good guarantee at that price!


yeah i was looking at that but as you say its alot of money to throw at somethign which mite be *beep*.

is there anyone breaking a kadett with a 12s???

also anyone have a 12s head for sale as the one i have is fubar'd.
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Postby Doive » 18 Apr 2007, 08:58

Last I heard there was a fella in Dunfermline who was selling the 1.2S out of my old Kadett. It was a sweet little engine, 73k on the clock and ran very well indeed.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 18 Apr 2007, 09:28

well ive got the engine and box althou thye head fooked. its the other stuff i need now to do the conversion.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 18 Apr 2007, 17:37

Shellysowner wrote:Exhaust manifolds, when I get round to doing them, will be about £150.

pockets!


sorry only just read that bit properly, what manifold is this and how much better is it over the standard one as i know the standard ones aint the best.
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Postby Shellysowner » 18 Apr 2007, 20:44

ross.cheeks wrote:sorry only just read that bit properly, what manifold is this and how much better is it over the standard one as i know the standard ones aint the best.


It'll be as close as I can possibly get to an exact copy of the Janspeed manifold which is nestling snugly in my garage at the moment. How much better? Dunno yet as I haven't tried it out. Not sure if the spacing of the exhaust ports is the same on the 1196 as on the 1256 though. Mark? Sean?
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Postby ross.cheeks » 18 Apr 2007, 21:02

ok.

also wondering about the radiator, would i not be able to use the one from the chevette. whats different on a kadett one?
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Postby Doive » 19 Apr 2007, 08:54

The Chevette and Kadett radiators are different shapes and sizes, so using a Chevette rad with the 1196 engine will require unique top and bottom hoses to mate up with the water pump and stat housing. Best bet is to get the rad to match the engine, and then spend months searching for a top hose for a 1.2S Kadett like I had to.
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Postby ross.cheeks » 19 Apr 2007, 09:08

yeah that makes sense,
could you not make your own out of samco type hose?
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Postby ross.cheeks » 19 Apr 2007, 17:28

looking at it seeing as i will be in uni for another year and will be able to use all of the facilities like machine shop etc i mite just get another 1256 and drop that in. seeing as i wouldnt need to faff around in looking for this and that and would surely just be a straight swap for the lump that in mine now?

that way im not spending money i dont really need to on parts like propshafts rad mounts etc and can put that towards other stuff on the car.

i know it sound like i keep changing my mind about things but i have ideas then dont really think the fulll project through.
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Postby 14yearoldchevetter » 19 Apr 2007, 19:35

Am I right in saying that a manta 1.8 engine and box fits in the chevette pretty easy? :?

Perhaps an option :? :?:
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