1.6 ohc - what 'box?

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1.6 ohc - what 'box?

Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 12:37

As title, really.

If one were to get a 1.6 ohc (carb-fed), what would be the best gearbox option? Type9?

Could it bolt up to the standard 'box?

I have my eye on something rather interesting and lovely indeed...

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Postby shuvit-tim » 04 Jan 2006, 12:39

depends WHICH 1.6ohc engine..... i presume it's a ford engine by your type 9 suggestion?
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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 12:44

Nope...Vauxhall. Sorry for the confusion.

The 1.6 8v.

Being that it's a VX lump, are there cheaper solutions than spending a fortune on a Manta sump and pick up pipe?

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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 12:45

Furthermore to the sump query - would cutting the sump to reduce it's height work?

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Postby shuvit-tim » 04 Jan 2006, 12:49

the box you want is a getrag from a manta 1800.

you'll need a custom prop,

if it's a nova GTE engine you can apparently use the sump from that. Other possibilities may be sumps form 1200 novas but we arent sure!
the big wing sump is a huge expense, i'm currently looking into trying to source one to use as a template to make a batch out of something like steel or tin as suggested by hsr2.6.

you'll also need the dizzy set up from a manta.
shuvit2go has done a 1600 8V conversion so he is your best source of info on this one
when all else fails, rivets, cable ties and bodge tape will see you through

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Postby shuvit-tim » 04 Jan 2006, 12:50

I guess in theory its not impossible, but arent sumps supposed to have fairly set capacities?

i take it you'r looking at this baby?

vauxhall 1600 turbo block
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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 13:11

They chopped the sump on the Alfa V6 in PPC (bellhousing-making article).

That's the engine indeed. I can get it picked up and stored for a wee while.

Manta A axle will be my choice if I can get one for a reasonable price....There's one on the bay at £40 as it stands.

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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 13:22

How to complicate things even further...

I like the idea of an independant rear end though...

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Postby Shoveitpusher » 04 Jan 2006, 14:11

the sump has to contain enough oil to keep the pick up covered under normal conditions when the engine is pressurised. if you can find the volume the engine contains and ensure there is enough volume to both contain the volume in the engine and the amount necessary to cover the pickup then it should be possible. i would use a huge cooler to make sure the oil doesn't overheat as well. you could also hit problems with foaming with the oil in the recued height sump.

a dry sump kit may be a cheaper option in the long run with an accumulator - oil supply being critical on turbo engines.

watch the handbrake on a rear disk vx setup, they are drums inside the disks and prone to failure.
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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 15:15

Oil cooler, eh?

Image

Big enough? (mounted just behind the grille on an HS Bumper, gets plenty of airflow)

Aren't dry sump setups rather pricey? If dry-sumped, would I be able to chop the sump around quite a lot?

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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 04 Jan 2006, 16:51

penski wrote:They chopped the sump on the Alfa V6 in PPC (bellhousing-making article)
.
good old PPC. what a load of crap it is, apart from Vizard & Walker which hardly justifies buying it. why would people bother installing a 16v engine from a higher spec model into a lower spec one? a practice the magazine featured and tried backing up when a reader pulled them up about it.
penski wrote:Manta A axle will be my choice if I can get one for a reasonable price....There's one on the bay at £40 as it stands.

which actually got sold for just over a fiver the other week and the buyer was obviously told they're not having it at that price.
penski wrote:Aren't dry sump setups rather pricey? If dry-sumped, would I be able to chop the sump around quite a lot?
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they are but how many are you going to buy? depending on which kit you buy depends on if you will be using the original oil pump as they can hang lower than what the crank webs do but you don't need the pick-up pipe which is what the well of the sump is used for anyway. your new oil tank is essentially your new sump so it can be positioned anywhere, lower being better for obvious reasons. have a look at pace products to get more of a feel of what i'm talking about.
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Postby penski » 04 Jan 2006, 18:01

I had a good dig around the Pace website earlier (stumbled across it whilst googling).

The guy with the engine now says he wants £150...which is £50 more than I'd pay.

Bah.

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Postby Harry Flatters » 04 Jan 2006, 20:39

Don't be scared of modifying sumps - in general terms, if you think about what's happening with the oil and what the engine needs, you won't go far wrong.

I normally try to stay somewhere handy to the original sump capacity; if the manufacturer's spent all those millions developing the thing I'm not very inclined to second guess them! That doesn't mean the sump has to - or should - stay the same shape as original though. Try to visualise how the oil will slosh around as you corner, brake, accelerate, and go up and down hills, to make sure the pick up pipe won't be uncovered in normal (or abnormal!) operation; then design the shape and baffling as appropriate.

If you reduce the oil volume dramatically, as Peter says, it'll run hot and possibly foam. The oil level should (nearly) always be below moving parts - if the crank's sloshing through the oil, it'll heat the oil, froth it up, reduce it's life and sap power from the engine.

Don't forget the pick up doesn't have to stay original, either; you can modify as needed. I normally get a new pipe bent to the shape I need and re-use the old strainer etc.
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