engine numbers ?

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engine numbers ?

Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 09 Aug 2005, 13:34

I have the chance of a x14xe 1.4 16v out of a nova sport, was just wonderin what engine numbers are ecotecs? any info or help welcome cheers
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Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 09:54

well - the nova sport engine wasnt 16V

nor was it 1400

the sport was originally a nova sprite. it came with a standard 1300 8V engine and a set of weber twin 40 carbs in the boot. at the time you decided to fit those webers it became a nova sport. All of them were on a C reg and they were a dull white with decals on. Check www.novadrive.com in the gallery for some piccys of my mates if you are in any doubt. There is a site where they have a list of shell numbers to confirm sport authenticity - check the nova forums like novaload for these.

The 1400 XE 16V enigne will have come out of a corsa at some point, and will have been transplanted into the sport more than likely for motorsport use. When you see the gentleman responsible for carving the original 1300 on 40s out of the sport - hit him with something heavy for me.

p.s - are you planning on putting this in your chevette? if so using what box? is the input shaft the correct lenght on said gearbox, what mountings and prop will you use etc?
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 14:33

found out this is an ecotec and my bro sed they don't come in 1400 so think your guess would be correct in sayin its from a corsa, as for meeting the gentleman I would love 2 hit him really hard for ye mate :lol:

engine mounts - gettin them made (professionally) at £15 (roughly)

I wanted to put a 1.4 16v in it but I don't want to put an ecotec engine in it so I'll either stick with the original 1.3 8v or get a 1.3 8v from a nova,astra etc

unsure about the box, was plannin to keep the one thats in it jus now as its only done 32,000 miles but unsure if it would fit the newer engine?

and the same with the prop, any suggestions would be great
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Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 16:12

right i looked into putting a nova engnie into a chevette and there are a few problems.

Firstly, you cannot use the existing box, the bellhousing is the wrong shape. a manta 1800 gearbox gives the correct bellhousing shape, but I think the input shaft would be the wrong size so you would have to have one machined and/or have a spacer plate fitted to the box.

on fitting a manta gearbox you will be faced with the problem that your prop is now th ewrong length so you will have to have one made - requiring the back end from a chevette prop and the front end from a manta prop. This will then have to be balanced.

If you are tuning the engine beyond 100bhp you will have to go for a manta A axle or a manta B axle (with widened arches if using the 'b' as it is slightly too wide). This alos means you will have to turret the suspension if you are workiong on a hatch as the manta suspension was designed to work vertically. [my advice would be to stick 40s on the 1300 and that will give you about 100bhp, and leqave the axle standard]

in short - i just dont know if the 1300 will fit. you will also have problems with the sump (baffles will be facing the wrong way). with a 1600 8V engine you can use a manta 1800 bigwing sump, but we dont know if it will fit the 1300 engine. You will also need the pick-up pipe and the dizzy set up from a manta 1800

basically the nova SR 1300-1400 engine has a lot of big ifs that we cant answer, on whether it will fit into a chevette. but by all means have a go, but I would only approach it if you have time and money!

If there is any details on novas you need that would help you then let me know, I'm happy to help. If you do get it to work please let me know how so I can do it, I have 2 spare nova SR engines in my shed!

My advice would be to buy a 1600 8V from an astra. that should drop in easily with a manta 1800 box, custom mounts, 1800 manta sump and pick up pipe and dizzy, custom prop. put it on 40s and fiddle with the engine until you achieve about 100bhp. but please bare in mind i havent done this myself yet (although i'm planning to) so it might not go as smoothly as i think!
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 16:20

:shock: seems lyk a lot of work, I have the time but not the experience

think the engine in it will do for now, gettin a set of dellortos for.....free! :)

and I think I'll get it rebuilt by my dads mate so it should be around 100bhp I think.

I'm only using it for road use so if I mod the engine so it has ariund 120 bhp (if possible) would I be advised to change the axle?
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 16:51

Chevette_Rwd_Beast wrote:I'm only using it for road use so if I mod the engine so it has ariund 120 bhp (if possible) would I be advised to change the axle?

stick with it until it breaks
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Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 17:12

120bhp from the 1256? unless your dad is god bill all i would say is good luck. aim for about 90
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 17:23

shuvit-tim wrote:120bhp from the 1256? unless your dad is god bill all i would say is good luck. aim for about 90


:lol: near enough :roll:

a just remembered they only have around 45 or 60 as standard?

thinkin about gettin a full rebuild, am talkin big pistons,lightend and balanced flywheel etc etc but what do you need for 2 run it on unleaded?

heard that I may need 2 change the valve seats 2 harder ones or is this an urban myth?
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Postby Shellysowner » 11 Aug 2005, 17:49

Well it's a bit up in the air actually. You can probably get away with running it on unleaded and just adding additive every once in a while but hardened valve seats will be needed for proper longevity. It'll set you back £120 to have them done.

It's 58bhp as standard btw.
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 18:13

Shellysowner wrote:Well it's a bit up in the air actually. You can probably get away with running it on unleaded and just adding additive every once in a while but hardened valve seats will be needed for proper longevity. It'll set you back £120 to have them done.

It's 58bhp as standard btw.


think I'll be hoping to keep the engine for many many miles and hopefully years so £120 well spend, where would I be able to pick up a set? are they a "modification" or will dingbro,unipart etc have them?

58 bhp......:roll: I can feel the power now :lol:
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 18:14

Chevette_Rwd_Beast wrote:heard that I may need 2 change the valve seats 2 harder ones or is this an urban myth?

they never came with valve seats so the head would have to be machined to accept them.

Shellysowner wrote:It'll set you back £120 to have them done.

i bet that's for only the exhaust valve seats as well. if i was going to convert my head i would specify the inlets to be done as well, phosphor bronze valve guides and sodium filled valves if they did them just to be on the safest side as heat build-up is a very bad thing. no such problems around here though as texaco are selling 4* fuel according to the leaded fuel website. i shall go and check on the prices later and see if it's economical enough to fill my chevette.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 11 Aug 2005, 18:20

you see 4* around the place here and there but you cant really rely on it in the long term as they are phasing it out and putting the pressure on more and more to knock it on the head.

i ran mine on unleaded for a little while and it was fine, just a bit of pinking now and then. but really you should run 4* or use an additive.

it all depends how much you want to spend i suppose

if you can get even 100bhp out of a 1256 can you give me a price for me to get the same done please!? :D
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 18:31

no where does 4* around my way anymore I would need 2 drive aboot 5-10miles to get it if I'm lucky :?

and I'm confused now, because shellysowner says i can buy valve seats for £120 and herbie is sayin they never came with valve seats....any1 like 2 make a final decision? its a 1.3 8v if it helps :?
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 18:47

Chevette_Rwd_Beast wrote:and I'm confused now, because shellysowner says i can buy valve seats for £120 and herbie is sayin they never came with valve seats....any1 like 2 make a final decision? its a 1.3 8v if it helps :?

have you not seen a bare head before mate as i suppose it can get confusing.
in the old days cylinder heads were made out of cast iron and they cast the seat as part of the head. with the advent of aluminium heads they needed to make seats as alumunium is not hard enough to withstand the valve hitting it, thus valve seats were created but not necessarily hardened seats. to fit seats into a head that did not have seats originally only involves the old seat area being machined to accept the new seat and then the new seat being thrashed in, the casting around the seat peened over to hold it in place and machined up to allow the valve to seat correctly. ok :?:
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Postby Shellysowner » 11 Aug 2005, 19:22

Yeah, what I actually said is it'll cost you £120 to get them done -i.e. have a machine shop do 'em. The seats themselves probably cost about 20-30 quid (dunno, never asked). Yes it was just the exhaust valve seats nick - should last a fair old while though hey?
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 19:23

think av got you, basically my old engine has the valve seats made when the head was bein made so if I want to harden the seats the head will need 2 b machined so it can hold valve seat "replacements"

so I wont necessarily need hardend valve seats?

or would I be best gettin another head from a newer engine with "removable" valve seats?
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Postby Neilyman » 11 Aug 2005, 19:28

I`ve never had mine done :(
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Postby Shellysowner » 11 Aug 2005, 19:34

Not quite - the replacements are hardened valve seats.

None of the 1256s were made with 'removable' seats and no valve seats are removable at home - they're an interferance fit and changing them over is a machine-shop only job. Also, you don't buy special 1256 hardened valve seats - you buy generic ones of roughly the correct size and machine them to suit. For 120 notes I'd leave it to the pros! Looking back at what you just wrote Nick - I thought peening was bad, something to do with hotspots maybe... can't quite remember where I read it.
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 19:39

by peening i meant the new cut out for the seat is deeper than the seat going in so you can peen the casting over to hold it in place. oh yea and liberal use of the loctite :)
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Postby Shellysowner » 11 Aug 2005, 19:43

Herbie_Flowers wrote:by peening i meant the new cut out for the seat is deeper than the seat going in so you can peen the casting over to hold it in place. oh yea and liberal use of the loctite :)


:?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: I thought it was meant to be all precise and exact and things whereby the hole is slightly smaller than but the same depth as the seat at room temp and then you cool the seat right down and drop it in? No?
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 20:14

Shellysowner wrote: :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: I thought it was meant to be all precise and exact and things whereby the hole is slightly smaller than but the same depth as the seat at room temp and then you cool the seat right down and drop it in? No?

that way is only needed for alloy heads.
we used to put the head into the washer for 20mins @80 degrees, get it out and place it on the bench, use freezing spray on the seat to cool it right down , put loctite on the seat area and then gently knock it in. peen the alloy over to make sure it was held in place. aluminium is a [email protected] for picking up when steel is being inserted, tightly, into it. we used the same method for inserting valve guides into alloy heads as well apart from the peening bit.
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Postby Chevette_Rwd_Beast » 11 Aug 2005, 21:46

right.............take the head off the engine take it to the machine shop (piston components in edinburgh) ask for replacement valve seats to be placed in and that should be it done professionally? and I should just cough up the money?
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 11 Aug 2005, 22:15

i wouldn't personally mate because i don't like getting ripped off and you won't after reading this, this is what i would do:
take head off and place it on a piece of cardboard on the floor how it sat on the block. next get an old spark plug socket, a tissue and a BFO hammer. put tissue into spark plug socket to block the end. now place the socket on top of any inlet valve spring and hit once with the hammer. if done correctly you will have released the collets and the spring should fully decompress. place all the bits in a plastic bag apart from the valve. do the same for any exhaust valve. now turn the head over and wipe the stems of the valves. place them back into their respective guides and just lift them back up about a 1/4inch and wiggle side to side. there will be play between the valve and guide but not excessive play. obviously the further you pull it out the more it will wiggle but your valve isn't lifted that far out of it's seat so this is adequate. if the play feels fine then you won't need new guides, saving you money, but it is strongly recommended to get all the valves and seats refaced not just the exhaust which is what they would have to do anyway.
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Postby shuvit-tim » 12 Aug 2005, 01:19

:shock: me, i'd just use an additive
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Postby Herbie_Flowers » 14 Aug 2005, 00:29

shuvit-tim wrote:you see 4* around the place here and there but you cant really rely on it in the long term as they are phasing it out and putting the pressure on more and more to knock it on the head.

apparantly the leaded website says there are no plans to phase out leaded petrol only LRP. it is however £1.10 a litre at the local garage due to extra duty which would make it far too expensive to use in a daily hack :cry:
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